"The Origin of Quran. Its transmission, compilation, corruption/preservation and current status".

A COMPREHENSIVE WRTITTEN DEBATE BETWEEN THREE ATHEISTS, A CHRISTIAN AND THREE MUSLIMS.

The debate will be hosted jointly by Exploring Faiths Organization (THIS BLOG) and the group "Religion, philosophy, let us talk about it" (http://www.facebook.com/groups/181024738596591/) and Islamic Perimeter (www.islamicperimeter.com). The debate will be published on http://www.exploringfo.blogspot.com and in the group mentioned above and also on the website http;//www.islamicperimeter.com

Mr. Dave Mark Rowlands: A British atheist and a humanist.

MR. DAVE MARK ROWLANDS' OPENING STATEMENT

Good morning/evening/afternoon, depending on your timezone! My name is Dave Rowlands. I'd like to start by thanking my fellow debators for allowing me the privilege of taking part in this debate. I'd also like to thank you the reader for allowing me take up some of your time with my presentation.

Once again, debate is turned to the age old topic of the preservation of the Qu'ran. Has it become corrupt since Mohammed began teaching it? Has it remained word for word since it's "revelation"? There are many arguments presented to both support and negate the assertion that it has, this being a very old topic of debate. I hope to present an argument that shows that the claim of preservation is more than just questionable.

One of the defences used as evidence of it's preservation comes directly from the Qu'ran itself. This of course being verse 15:9 - "(We have, without doubt, sent down the Reminder [i.e., the Quran]; and We will assuredly guard it [from corruption].) (Al-Hijr 15:9)". This defence can be easily dismissed, if Allah does not exist, then neither does his supernatural protection.

It does, however, offer an opportunity to test the "Allah hypothesis". Does he exist? After all, if the evidence shows that the Qu'ran has indeed become corrupted then it means there has been no protection. So I shall be revisiting this verse, in another manner, during the debate. As a defence, it is useless. As evidence of existence, it is still worthy of discussion.

Another claim made in favour of protection and incorruptability of the Qu'ran, is that of the sheer amount of people that have it memorised. There are so many people who have it stored in memory, that any changes made would be spotted instantly. While I do admit that this defence does hold water, it is only true from a certain point in history onwards. In the beginning of the Qu'ran's "revelation", the numbers were much lower. Before the Qu'ran became so widespread, it would still have been possible for it to become corrupt. Not only was it possible, but there is evidence to support the fact that it was indeed "corrupted".

Another note worthy point about this defence, in my opinion, is that it is not evidence of protection from a deity. It simply shows evidence of protection by devout Muslims. If it was protected by Allah, there should be no need of anyone to memorise and check existing copies. There should be need of any human intervention what so ever in it's protection. Again, this is further evidence of Allah's non-existence and also counters the claim made by verse 15:9.

I will be using evidence from the hadith collections to show that changes have occurred in the Qu'ran since it's "revelation" by Mohammed, as well as the Sana'a manuscript. I hope that after reading my discussion on the topic of the Qu'ran's "purity" that you too will agree that corruption has indeed occurred with the Qu'ran.

Another argument I will be discussing is one that I don't think is raised often enough. That of it's spiritual corruption. We often hear claims of various Islamic sects "corrupting" the teachings of the Qu'ran. Which I think should also be included in the debate. It is, after all, a book of spiritual guidance. If the Quran is indeed being protected by the creator of the universe, than it's teachings should be protected along with the words. Again, if only the words have been protected, it is simply evidence of human protection after a certain period in history rather than divine protection.

The argument of spiritual corruption is an important one in my opinion, even though it is oft dismissed by Islamic apologists. Apologists claiming that only the text itself is protected. However, I do not believe that this defence holds water. After all, it makes no sense for a creator to reveal his teachings and protect only the words of the teachings, rather than the actual teachings itself. Of course, there is no debate on whether or not the spiritual teachings of the Qu'ran have become corrupt.

We often hear many claims from apologists that state that certain verses are used out of context. That Islamic terrorists are misguided. That the Qu'ran does not teach that striking your wife is acceptable. Therefore, there is no argument over whether it's teachings are, or have become, corrupt to a certain extent.

I have tried to keep my opening statement as brief as possible, as you, our readers, have many to go through and ponder on! Hopefully my basic argument has been outlined though, and you will see in my next paper that my argument does indeed stand, and that Islamic apologists are simply pulling the wool over peoples eyes over the claim of incorruptability.

Thank you for your time.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE DEBATE INTRODUCTION. 

CLICK HERE TO READ PAPER 1 i.e MR. SHAKOOR'S OPENING STATEMENT.

CLICK HERE TO READ PAPER 3 i.e MR. KUREIN VERGHESE'S OPENING STATEMENT.


CLICK HERE TO READ PAPER 4 i.e MR. MUSHAFIQ SULTAN'S OPENING STATEMENT.


CLICK HERE TO READ PAPER 5 i.e MR. NINAD GAIKWAD'S OPENING STATEMENT.

CLICK HERE TO READ PAPER 6 i.e MR. SAAIB AHMED'S OPENING STATEMENT. 



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3 Response to "The Origins of Quran. Paper 2. Dave's Opening Statement."

  1. simtiyaznawaz Said,

    Every thing around you tells you there is a Creator. Believe.

    Posted on 20 June 2012 at 13:01

     
  2. ransaturn Said,

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    Posted on 20 June 2012 at 19:02

     
  3. ransaturn Said,

    On Allah protection of the Quran:

    "We have, without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)". (Quran 15:9)

    Allah swt reminds us that He who send down the revelation and He is the One who will protect it. To protect it in terms of its 'physical existence'. On regards of what Mr Dave said, about its meaning, that is not the case as in the Quran clearly stated that:

    "He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: in it are verses BASIC or FUNDEMENTAL (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are NOT of well-established meaning. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not of well-established meaning. Seeking discord, and searching for its interpretation, but no one knows its true meanings except Allah, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it is from our Lord"; and none will grasp the Message except MEN OF UNDERSTANDING. (Quran 3:7)

    The purpose of this is to differentiate between the true believer and the false believer as been revealed from this verse:

    Do men think that they will be left alone on saying "We believe" and that they will not be tested? We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false. (Quran 29:2-3)

    God blessed us with logic and reasoning and for this He expect us to find its true meaning and to reflect on His glory. If it is not because to differentiate between the true believer and the false believer, the world would never be the world as we know today, divided with different belief and ideologies. It purpose is just to test you, which of you are good in deeds, and which of you are evil-doer. As clearly stated in this verse,

    "Mankind was one single ummah. And Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace guided the Believers to the Truth, concerning what wherein they differed. For Allah guides whom He will to a path that is straight". (Quran 2:213)

    To be clear, you are only responsible for what you said, not what others think of what you said. Can you imagine the world would be if it is vice versa?

    Josefi Latif
    Malaysia

    Posted on 20 June 2012 at 19:36

     

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